Saturday, August 30, 2008
Meet McCain's Second Choice For VP

John McCain knew what he had to do when he was choosing his running mate, the person who would become President of the United States if anything happened to the 73-year-old cancer survivor: He had to pander to undecided voters. He chose Sarah Palin, hoping Hillary Clinton supporters and other women are stupid and shallow enough to vote for anyone with a 'giner, regardless of political leanings.

According to those in the know, he came very close to reaching out for the black vote by choosing rapper/reality tv star Flavor Flav.

Hey, why the fuck not? If McCain thinks liberal and moderate women are going to vote for ultra-conservative Sarah Palin because she has a honey pot, why wouldn't he think a barely literate cartoon character like Flava Flav could lure black people away from Columbia University and Harvard Law graduate Barack Obama? Why wouldn't he condescend to them as well?

Back to reality, does this mean that the entire time "Mr. Straight Talk" John McCain was flappin' his dicksuckers about experience it was all bullshit? Because there is nobody less experienced than this lady. Two years ago she was the mayor of the town featured on Northern Exposure and by January she could be vice president to a guy who, if not knocking on death's door, is definitely in the neighborhood.

Of course, some simple-minded pissants will just love Sarah Palin. "She's just like me," they'll say. Great, but we don't need a vice president/potential president just like you, because you are a fucking idiot! In case you think I'm sounding elitist, I don't want a president like me, either! The "c" students have failed us, ladies and gentlemen. It's time to, in the parlance of our times, get some overachievers up in this motherfucker.


Blogger John said...

Hmm... 2 years as a Governor or 2 years as a Senator. Toss-up. Oh wait, one's running for VPOTUS, not POTUS. Seriously, I don't give a shit who wins in November, but DEMS need to be careful about letting McCain bait them into a debate about relative experience between their POTUS candidate and the GOP's VPOTUS candidate. He's hoping for that very thing, ya know.

Blogger Ian McGibboney said...

I don't recall Barack Obama saying "Can somebody tell me what the president does?" or saying he didn't know much about Iraq.

Blogger yournamehere said...

Graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law.
Civil rights attorney.
Illinois senate.
Professor of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School.
United States Senator, Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Veteran's Affairs, Homeland Security, and Health, Education and Labor.

Sarah Palin:
Graduate of University of Idaho.
Winner, Miss Wasila beauty pageant.
1st Runner Up, Miss Alaska beauty pageant.
Wasila, Alaska city council.
Wasila, Alaska mayor.
Governor of Alaska (the United State's least populous state).

Even? Really? Hey, my problems with Palin have to do with her ideology, not her experience, but ol' "straight shooter" McCain is clearly full of shit.

Blogger yournamehere said...

And I'm not saying the woman is a slacker. She's accomplished more than I ever will (for instance, I came in a distant sixth in the Miss Alaska contest), but she's not major-party ticket material, in my opinion.

Blogger John said...

Yeah, but the problem is Obama is running for the top job and Palin's gonna sit and look pretty once the election is over (if McCain wins). She's gonna meet the leaders of countries we've never heard of and attend boring ceremonies no one cares about.

I think Obama's gonna smoke McCain in November, so this is all mental masturbation probably. But if you're just looking at the political nuances, Palin was a good choice. If Biden gets aggressive and bullies her in debates, you're gonna be able to hear the chick voters who are in the Center shuffling on over to the McCain column. Not to mention any disillusioned Hillary backers who are looking for any excuse to stay home or even secretly vote for the other side's guy to spite the DEMS for having the audacity not to coronate Hillary. You know they're out there, just like you know there are plenty of hard-right GOP'ers who need any excuse to stay home instead of seeing a "Liberal" like McCain get elected. Morons all.

Blogger Ian McGibboney said...

Actually, Wyoming has fewer people than Alaska. You know who's from Wyoming? Dick Cheney! (Dum da dum dum dum...)

The Palin pick is a joke. It's saying one a few things, any of which are sad on their own:

1) McCain knows he's gonna blow it, so the pick doesn't matter beyond superficial cosmetic concerns.

2) McCain (or his campaign) made this pick on purpose, as an F-U for the black-kid thing of 2000.

3) McCain really thought all women were so vapid that they would suspend every principle they uphold just to vote for any random skirt. Polls are already showing that it's backfired horribly. Because women are smarter than these old white men give them credit for.

4) McCain timed the pick exclusively to steal Obama's thunder, which is why he went for someone he allegedly met only once before the selection.

Addressing your points, John:

A vice president needs to be ready for the presidency at a moment's notice. Anyone who plays pretty with that pick is taking a huge gamble, especially when the centerpiece of their entire campaign is "experience." But it does fit in well with Obama's "judgment" theme, e.g., McCain doesn't have any.

Blogger John said...

Don't you see how that plays into McCain's hands, Ian? You seem like a pretty smart guy. Don't let your political ideology cloud your reasoning powers on this. Step back for a second and consider the implications of what you just wrote there.

A vice president needs to be ready for the presidency at a moment's notice. Anyone who plays pretty with that pick is taking a huge gamble

Obama was a nobody until a year or so ago. He was one of 100 Senators. No executive experience (which obviously Governors get plenty of). Now he's had a few months of crash course in all of this stuff. And he's actually going to be the top guy right out of the chute. I'm telling you, McCain is hoping the Left starts ragging on Palin for the very reasons you are. It gives them the perfect chance, every time it comes up, to turn it around on Obama and say, hey, at least she's #2 on our ticket... You guys put the inexperienced one at the top and the experienced one at #2. Who really made the bad choice here? C'mon man, you have to see that from a purely political standpoint, she was a very good choice. Also, she excites the hardcore Right-wingers in all the ways McCain leaves them flat and unenthused.

I still don't think it will matter, though. Obama wins by a pretty big margin because the youth and black voters will turn out in droves. Game over if/when they do. You can feel the "throw the bums out" vibe all over the place.

Blogger John said...

Oh, and as far as polls go, explain how picking Palin backfired? I just saw Zogby's most recent poll, for example, and it shows McCain/Palin up 2 points (within the margin of error) after he picked Palin. Because she's solidly Conservative, picking her helped the ticket gain 3% of GOP voters. Obama is getting 86% of DEMS who say they are solidly behind him, while McCain is now getting 92% of GOP'ers who say they're solidly behind him. Looks to me like picking her was smart in terms of winning back some far Right laggers.

Blogger lostinutah said...

I'm with you on the qualifications. I worked with a guy in Idaho who had a Harvard MBA. He was an idiot, the joke was always "I, too, could have a Harvard MBA".

However, to edit the Harvard Law Review, you have to be pretty damn smart. Not to bash U of I (my husband attended that fine establishment at the same time as Ms. Palin, as has a lot of my family)....but...

Not even close.

And I went to Nevada, Reno, so if you picked me as your VP candidate that would be an even bigger mistake. Ha.

Blogger Ian McGibboney said...

So McCain's camp* picked Palin for the second-highest office in the land as a setup for a schoolyard taunt? Real smart.

And Palin was brought in, resume be damned, just to lure in a demographic he despises, and that the rest of the country also despises, who would have gone in his column anyway? Real smart.

As for polls, John Zogby is a Republican through and through. Not one without heart or common sense, but still something to consider. And considering the division that is only starting to wither among Democrats, and the GOP's reputation for being lockstep, "fall in line" voters, I'd say those percentages actually favor Obama.

It's the very politics McCain is playing that people are putting their faith in Obama to eradicate. It's why Hillary fared so poorly against him, and why McCain will do even worse.

(*-I hesitate to say that McCain even made this pick. Smells of focus group to me, especially considering how heavily McCain had seemed to be leaning toward Lieberman or Romney.)

How can you compare the top person of a ticket to the 2nd? I encourage libs to criticize to your heart's content on this subject. By all means, keep the experience argument going.

And for crying out loud, are you libs really defending the intelligence of someone that thinks Iran is a "tiny" country that poses no threat to the world? Seriously? How do you overlook that? Forget about gaffe statements all politicians make, that is a frighteningly dangerous statement! How naive is this asshole? You can have 5 degrees and still be devoid of common sense. Clearly, that is the case with Obama.

Blogger Ian McGibboney said...

So this is what it's come to: the idea that the vice president can be any lightweight figure, because the top name is most important.

Here's why Palin's nomination bothers me: because she's a leader two years removed from the mayorship of a small Alaskan town, set to back a 72-year-old man with limited mobility and a history of melanoma. The GOP should have given MORE consideration for the slot, not less!

FWIW, McCain referred to Iran as "The Iraq-Pakistan border." I'd rather vote for someone who is realistic about the threats we face (as opposed to simple fearmongering), than someone who couldn't find the country on a map.

Blogger John said...

Yes, and Obama is 2 years removed from being a State Senator. Do you really think that's a position with more experience than being the mayor or a town? If anything, Palin can make a strong case for having far more executive experience (what the POTUS needs, of course) than Obama.

There's a reason the voters almost always vote in Governors, not Senators. Having 2 sitting Senators both win their respective nominations is rare indeed. Adding Palin was smart on that score because she has executive experience (albeit for just a couple of years, but again, that's 2 more than Obama).

I don't like defending Palin, and I want to be clear I'm not defending her politics. I think she's wrong on the majority of her positions (abortion, religion being the biggies). But from an electoral standpoint, McCain probably made as good a pick as he could have. He'll still lose, but it might be closer with her on the ticket than if he'd gone with someone who would further alienate the GOP base (like Lieberman or Ridge).

Blogger yournamehere said...

I think everyone is missing my main point: that Sarah Palin is to Hillary Clinton as Flava Flav is to Barack Obama. She's a cute former beauty pageant contestant and "hockey mom". Good for her, but I don't want her to be president when McCain croaks.

I can compare the top person to the second when the second is right behind a guy who is one year away from the average life expectancy of an American male.

Blogger Ian McGibboney said...

Todd, you make a good point. The whole Palin affair has been strictly about getting a woman on the ticket, and hoping no one notices WHICH woman.

John, Obama's district has more people than the entire state of Alaska. And way to parrot the "executive experience." I hadn't read that verbatim on 30 other threads by Palin apologists.

Blogger Übermilf said...

I am going to refrain from making comments about anyone's genitalia or lack thereof.

Therefore, I have nothing to say at this particular moment.

Blogger lostinutah said...

Amen Todd. Elizabeth Dole would have been a much better choice (though I am not sure how old she is).

Blogger Scarlet Hip said...

His third choice was Whoopi Goldberg. Think of the demographics!

Blogger John said...

John, Obama's district has more people than the entire state of Alaska. And way to parrot the "executive experience." I hadn't read that verbatim on 30 other threads by Palin apologists.

Well, I'm not a Palin apologist. There's very little I like about her politically. I would have preferred a Libertarian at #2, but that was never gonna happen. See, to me (D) and (R) are just meaningless symbols. Once they get in power, both become the same, with very minor differences at best.

Regarding "executive experience," ok, insert whatever alternate language you prefer that makes the same point. You can't deny Palin has it and Obama does not. Now, to me it's a ridiculous thing to care about, but my point has always been that it seems to matter a lot to the voters. For that reason, since she's the only one of the 4 candidates that has it, and for several other purely political reasons (mostly about shoring up the GOP base), I think McCain made a smart choice. All for naught when he loses, but I'm convinced it will help him get more votes than he would have otherwise.

Ian, seriously, stop knee-jerk reacting to everyone who defends the Palin choice. That's not the same as defending Palin herself. If you haven't gotten that much, perhaps you should stick to debating something other than this stuff.

Blogger Ian McGibboney said...

Well, you do have a point that Palin has been a good political choice, in the sense that McCain has earned the backing of the far right for it. He c could have picked someone competent for the slot, perhaps someone who, I don't know, might be able to run this country on the extremely off chance that a 72-year-old man reaches normal life expectancy.

But that's not what conservatives care about, is it? No, instead we hear what a savvy move it is for McCain and how it will get him votes. Kind of the way Republicans talk about "advancing the conservative agenda" and "taking off our Republican hats and putting on American ones" because, for them, it's about party first and always. And that's nothing to rally behind.

As for "executive experience," it's a talking point. So she was in charge of a small Alaskan town now in disarray and has been governor for a year and a half. What about that makes her the most viable choice for vice president? Obama at least makes smart decisions.

Blogger John said...

I feel like one of the kids in The Emperor's New Clothes. Nuff said.

And ok, "executive experience" might well be a talking point. So what? Do you believe something being a talking point makes it false as a rule? Be careful how you answer, because I'm quite certain I or anyone who cared could deconstruct your comments and your blog and find a buttload of DEM "talking points." Sometimes a talking point has a factual basis, and in the case of Palin having exec experience while Obama does not, it's 100% true.

This is like an apples and oranges election. Here we all are comparing the DEMS' top dog to the GOP's #2. I know you're all excited about Obama and think he's actually going to bring real change to the country, but he's a perfect example of a guy who needed a few years as VP first. Or as Governor somewhere for several years (like Bill Clinton). All Obama has actually been in charge of is some committees and his own staff of gophers and assorted campaign toadies. The more you guys keep harping on Palin's newness and lack of gravitas, the more it plays right into McCain's hands. I'm truly amazed you don't see this.

Blogger yournamehere said...

Hey, this just in: Sarah Palin was a member of the Alaskan Independent Party, and although now a Republican, still supports them. This is a party that calls for the succession of the state of Alaska from the United States of America.

I wonder how the GOP base feels about someone who supports taking Alaska and its oil away from America.

Blogger Ian McGibboney said...

No one compared Palin to Obama until Republicans made it a talking point. And they had to, because McCain (or whoever) laid an absolute egg with Palin, and know it, and are desperate to rationalize it by incongruously wedding it to the "experience" thing, so far the only strategy that has sort of worked (meaning, not been a complete disaster) for the GOP.

Obama has tangible experience working to bypass partisan politics in Illinois as well as having been on the ground helping some of the poorest people in this country. He's also taught and practiced law and spans numerous cultures and all the life experiences that come with it. Saying Palin has "executive experience" is a far vaguer notion, rarely (if ever) defined. How do we even know that so-called experience was positive?

Finally, experience is less sacred than it used to be because all of our "experienced" leaders in Washington have spent years and decades destroying much of which America stands for. After the Bush-Cheney regime, "judgment" suddenly sounds like a more desirable trait.

Blogger Ian McGibboney said...

Oh, there's also the notion that Palin's adviser can't think of a single significant decision she has made a commander and leader. Indeed, he makes every answer about Obama and McCain. Not exactly confidence-inspiring stuff.

Blogger John said...

Problem is, Obama has never been in a position to make a significant decision as "commander and leader." Do you see how easy this is? And I'm nobody. Imagine how easy it will be for the pros to bat such silly stuff out of the park when they bring it against Palin. She completely de-fangs Biden, who everyone was saying was gonna do the bashing for that ticket. The attack dog, etc. If he goes after Palin in their debates, it will totally backfire on them. She'll look sympathetic and gain McCain undecided voters.

I realize Daily Kos and other Left-wing wackos will dig up plenty of dirt on her, but that would be true no matter who McCain had picked and you all know it.

I feel the need to continually remind that I'm not voting for McCain or Obama and I honestly do not give a flying fuck who wins. It won't make any significant difference. But I firmly believe that the net effect of picking Palin will be more votes for McCain... who will still lose.

Blogger Übermilf said...

must... avoid... engaging... conflict

Blogger Ian McGibboney said...

By your logic, John, no one is ready to be president because no one running has been president. Well, I think Bush has proven how much presidential experience matters.

As for the debates, I don't think Biden will hold back. If Palin can't take a grilling, then she needs to go home and take care of her pregnant kids. What's with this fragile-woman crap? Is that not more sexist than if they hadn't bothered with women candidates at all?

Blogger John said...

No Ian, it isn't my logic at all, and I think you know it deep down. Palin has been a Governor and no one else on either ticket has been in the top dog role other than her. That's simply a fact. I never said nor did I hint that to be president you have to have been president. That's idiotic. The point is that Governors historically win the presidency more (much more) than sitting Senators because voters perceive Governors as Presidents of states. It's apples to apples, whereas senators are just one of 100 and don't make the big, tough decisions executives have to make. That's the perception. Dig into the history of the US Presidency and you'll discover that this is how it is.

Regarding Biden attacking her in debates, again, it's about PERCEPTIONS among undecided voters. Pay attention, man! I heard non-stop on NPR and other channels after Biden was picked that he would be the attack dog to go after the other side and leave Obama to stay above the fray and look "presidential." Well, that's all well and good. Cheney certainly played that role the last 2 cycles (telling Pat Leahy to fuck himself was awesome... Leahy's the biggest dick to maybe ever grace the US Senate, seriously).

But Palin is being packaged as a "normal" person not tainted by Washington. And I'm telling you right now, if Biden unloads on her it will utterly backfire. It will make those who hate her still hate her (nothing gained there), but a lot of the undecideds or let's call them "swayables" will not like seeing the old establishment Washington guy metaphorically punching the younger, outside the beltway, "she's a lot like me and her family is a lot like mine" woman. That's reality, Ian. You can argue against it, and I actually would agree that it should not be that way, but it WILL be that way. Watch and see. But I bet you they hold Biden back on her. We'll see.

Hey, speaking of Biden, did you know his son is a Washington lobbyist, as is his brother? Why would Obama the "Change" messiah choose a running mate with familial ties to slimy lobbyists? Rhetorical question, my friend.

Oh, and answer honestly because this speaks to the media's huge bias.... Honestly now... before I just told you, did you know Biden's kid and his brother were lobbyists?

Blogger Ian McGibboney said...

Yes, I'm sure Palin will run crying off the debate stage, because she's sensitive and all and it's the only way the GOP has to neuter big bad Biden. Oh, except that she's a governor so she's more qualified to lead than Biden, Obama or McCain.

You're saying that not only will Biden look bad for crushing her on stage, but that with her leadership experience she's the best person to be up there.

Well, which is it? Innocent soccer mom, or highly qualified leader?

As for Biden, I don't judge people by their family members. My brother's in several bands, but that doesn't mean I have a lick of musical talent or benefit from his. Show me how there's some massive Biden lobbyist conspiracy and maybe I'll bite. Until then, let's talk Palin's qualifications without making it all about Obama-Biden like her people are so quick to do.

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